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7th day
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 1
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 3:53 am Post subject: Paul Apostle or Not? |
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Paul Apostle or not?
It has been said that Paul is a self proclaimed Apostle. With the exception of Luke recognizing his Apostleship there are no other direct references in the Bible, but let’s take a look at who did recognize him and what the marks of an Apostle are.
It has been stated that Paul’s writings are as Peter said, hard to understand. As is the nature of men, including myself, we use parts of scriptures without adding the complete verses to put it in context.
2 Peter 3: 15–17, And account that the longsuffering of our Master is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unsteadfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Ye therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware lest, being carried away with the error of the wicked, ye fall from your own steadfastness.
It seems that Peter recognized Paul as a beloved brother and as having wisdom given to him. It doesn’t say where the wisdom came from, but I would make the assumption that Peter, being an Apostle himself, would know that all true wisdom comes from above. Verse 16 is quite telling to me personally, which the ignorant and unsteadfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
It appears that Peter compared Paul’s writings with the rest of the scriptures and indicated that ignoring this wisdom would lead to their destruction. If Paul’s words were not of the Father this might have been a good place to point that out rather than supporting his writings. It is clearly understood by the elect, the words from Yahshua and Yahweh always carry more weight than those of men, but are the words of the Apostles or the prophets the words of men or the words of Yah Elohim? It is up to us, with the help of the HOLY SPIRIT to discern the truth. Do we really think that after Yahshua hung on a pole that Yah Elohim stopped speaking? Were there only 12 Apostles? And if not what were their names? How many other Apostles can you name besides the 12?
Who is a brother? According to Yahshua in Mathew 12 -50
For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.
It appears that Peter knew Paul was doing the will of Our Father or he wouldn’t have referred to Paul as a beloved brother. I will make a leap of faith here by saying if Paul was doing the will of the Father, he wouldn’t preach another Gospel that was not of the Father. Remember that Paul was sent to preach the Gospel to the gentiles and not the Jews! Is this where the problem is? Are there those that think that the gentiles could never be under any covenant of Yahweh? And that no wild olive branch should be grafted into the "chosen ones"? Yahshua said in Matthew 15 -24 I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But most of the Jews rejected him so the word was carried to the Gentiles. In Matthew 8 when Yahshua healed the Centutions servant he said 10 And when Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. 11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven: 12 but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
So then taking these words of Yahshua’s into consideration, who did he choose to send to the Gentiles the message of salvation? Yahshua’s choice of Paul as an Apostle to the gentiles, not one of the original twelve Apostles, was brilliant. Paul, being a Pharisee of the Pharisees, before his dramatic conversion encounter with Yahshua on the road to Damascus, was of course diametrically opposed to the notion of salvation by grace and faith, and not of the law, as evidenced by his murderous persecution of the ecclesia. If this zealous Jew could be converted to faith in Yahshua, there is hope for all who believe in the gospel of Yahshua.
Paul did do a lot of set up as to who he was and his qualifications, like any modern speaker would to qualify and introduce himself to a given group, (or as even we would in our own correspondence). This may be considered arrogant by critics, or it could be looked at as necessary to get people to listen to you so you can do the job you came to do. Paul mentioned repeatedly that he was the biggest sinner of all because of his persecution of the ecclesia when he was still a Pharisee named Saul.
1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Ephesians 3 - 7 whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of that grace of God which was given me according to the working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, was this grace given, to preach unto the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
When he isn’t qualifying himself he seems to speak as a true saint that realizes how unworthy he is to receive Yah Elohim’s grace.
I will note that from personal experience I have seen many anointed teachers start out with profound revelation of the Word, only to be corrupted by the pride of their own knowledge, leaning on their own understanding, and perhaps other men's doctrines, turning their words into something that was not of Yah Elohim, but this was not the case with Paul because he bore the marks of an Apostle.
And are we to discount the validity of the five fold ministry? Was that merely Paul’s idea? Of course not! It should be in effect today. And there are certainly Apostles walking the Earth, but not in the numbers that you see online! There has to be at least 40 that claim that in their title online. With all this man power we should all be saved, healed, enlightened by now, but sadly I think some of them might be liars.
Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
As to the thought that Revelation 2:2 is referring to Paul and company is a big stretch, what with all the false prophets and Apostles in the world even back then. I have to ask myself if Paul wasn’t an Apostle but he still did mighty works to benefit the Kingdom, does it really matter if he was an Apostle? It comes down to the question was he a servant of Yah or not? The revelation that Paul received from Yahshua testified to the fact that indeed that he was.
Mark 9-38 John said to Him, "Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us." 39 But Yahshua said, "Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in my name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. 40 For he who is not against us is for us.
Another point If Paul’s writings are of the Father then we have to look at what would be gained by discounting his epistles. One group that comes to mind would be anyone who discounts the New Testament altogether. Throw in a little confusion to cast doubt in people’s beliefs. Gee, I wonder who might do something like that?
By all means brethren question, search out truth, pray for divine revelation, for 1 John 2 – 27 says, And as for you, the anointing which ye received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any one teach you; but as his anointing teacheth you; concerning all things, and is true, and is no lie, and even as it taught you, ye abide in him.
What are the marks of an Apostle?
One who forsakes all to follow Yahshua. Few are willing to fully walk away from all they have and follow him, but an Apostle is.
Via Dolorosa – the way of suffering - our messiah Yahshua endured the ultimate sacrifice for us, and a true Apostle is marked by suffering also. Beaten, stoned, whipped, imprisoned, persecuted, ridiculed, martyred, beheaded. These are some of the things an Apostle has to endure for his name sake. Saul was on a full expense paid trip to zealously persecute believers when he was confronted by Yahshua on the road to Damascus and he completely sacrificed everything to obey Yahshua’s calling on his life.
Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after
me, is not worthy of me.
Considering the trials an Apostle has to endure, it’s hard to believe that anyone that wasn’t called of the Father, would want to be one.
Bottom Line you shall know them by their Fruits and they loved not their lives unto the death.
7th day |
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YahWarrior Site Admin

Joined: 09 Nov 2006 Posts: 168 Location: Florida, USA
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:52 am Post subject: |
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There is an interesting thread under the title Mystery Matrix on this forum that you might be interested in reading, where we wrestle with the idea of the apostleship of Paul.
I personally believe He was a Sent Out One of Yah Elohim, and that many of his writings are twisted by those who cannot discern where He was coming from in his discussions on the Law vrs Grace debate he often elaborated on from a Hebrew Perspective in writings such as his letters to the Romans and the Galatians etc.
A great settler of the debate is the book of Hebrews which some say was also written by Shaul (Paul) - some say another.
Yah Bless!
YahWarrior |
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